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	<title>Comments on: Dangerous Curves Ahead</title>
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	<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/</link>
	<description>Putting the Y back in guy.</description>
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		<title>By: Lewis</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-712</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-712</guid>
		<description>Also to add... what I don&#039;t get is why a heterosexual man would want to dress up as a girl and pixel-bump with another guy at all. Why&#039;s he doing that and not chasing after the lesbians? It suggests to me that he&#039;s not as hetero as he thinks he is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also to add&#8230; what I don&#8217;t get is why a heterosexual man would want to dress up as a girl and pixel-bump with another guy at all. Why&#8217;s he doing that and not chasing after the lesbians? It suggests to me that he&#8217;s not as hetero as he thinks he is.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-711</guid>
		<description>(here via a link in the SLU forums, following a thread on a very similar topic).

In my opinion the trouble with SL sex is because there are two types of people. Group A says it doesn&#039;t matter what a person&#039;s RL gender is, they accept the avatar at face value. Group B says that it&#039;s essential that SL gender matches with RL gender. Problems arise when two people in a relationship belong to different groups.

As for myself I don&#039;t particularly care. I&#039;m bisexual anyway, but I can understand how someone who&#039;s straight would be weirded out by finding that the hot babe he just shagged is really Dave the Trucker from Walsall.  I&#039;m also one of those weird transgendered people that Cronoclaw mentioned (although in my case I&#039;m the other way round - female to male). I&#039;m pretty open about it but that makes me fairly unusual. But it does give me a fairly unique perspective, in that I realise gender isn&#039;t always the two-sided coin we assume it to be. I put myself pretty firmly in the group which takes another&#039;s avatar at face value. I neither ask nor care whether they are what they claim to be or not.

What I don&#039;t think is okay, is anyone deliberately lying or being misleading about themselves for their own benefit, in order to get involved with someone who would not normally be interested. It doesn&#039;t have to be about gender - telling people you&#039;re single when you&#039;re really married is another major one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(here via a link in the SLU forums, following a thread on a very similar topic).</p>
<p>In my opinion the trouble with SL sex is because there are two types of people. Group A says it doesn&#8217;t matter what a person&#8217;s RL gender is, they accept the avatar at face value. Group B says that it&#8217;s essential that SL gender matches with RL gender. Problems arise when two people in a relationship belong to different groups.</p>
<p>As for myself I don&#8217;t particularly care. I&#8217;m bisexual anyway, but I can understand how someone who&#8217;s straight would be weirded out by finding that the hot babe he just shagged is really Dave the Trucker from Walsall.  I&#8217;m also one of those weird transgendered people that Cronoclaw mentioned (although in my case I&#8217;m the other way round &#8211; female to male). I&#8217;m pretty open about it but that makes me fairly unusual. But it does give me a fairly unique perspective, in that I realise gender isn&#8217;t always the two-sided coin we assume it to be. I put myself pretty firmly in the group which takes another&#8217;s avatar at face value. I neither ask nor care whether they are what they claim to be or not.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t think is okay, is anyone deliberately lying or being misleading about themselves for their own benefit, in order to get involved with someone who would not normally be interested. It doesn&#8217;t have to be about gender &#8211; telling people you&#8217;re single when you&#8217;re really married is another major one.</p>
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		<title>By: RANT: When a Girl...Isn't. - Page 11 - SLUniverse Forums</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>RANT: When a Girl...Isn't. - Page 11 - SLUniverse Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-710</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted by Daman   Dangerous Curves Ahead « Are we not men?  Thought this might help here   There was also a tutorial somewhere in the SLogosphere like a year [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RANT: When a Girl...Isn't. - Page 10 - SLUniverse Forums</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>RANT: When a Girl...Isn't. - Page 10 - SLUniverse Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-709</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dangerous Curves Ahead « Are we not men?  Thought this might help here   There was also a tutorial somewhere in the SLogosphere like a year ago that mentioned all the little details that men playing women usually forget, but I don&#8217;t remember where that was placed.  __________________ I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Serenpidity Lane</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Serenpidity Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>Just read this (I&#039;m a bit slow). All I want to say is...bah! You&#039;re easily scared! Are you not men? ;) (GREAT post title, though!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read this (I&#8217;m a bit slow). All I want to say is&#8230;bah! You&#8217;re easily scared! Are you not men? <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  (GREAT post title, though!)</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Lilliehook</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Lilliehook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-155</guid>
		<description>May I add another type to that list? 
The one that plays a female and at some point tells you he is a guy in RL, considering you a good friend and at the same time calling himself the &quot;best friend&quot; of your SL girlfriend. Secretly, he is actually in love with her and steals her away from you in the end ... hmm, guess that only fits for one single guy ...

Anyways, despite all the discussion, I really like this post and I have to admit that I DO have female skins and shapes in my inv, but I use them for fun only (besides that, my name gives me away anyways ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I add another type to that list?<br />
The one that plays a female and at some point tells you he is a guy in RL, considering you a good friend and at the same time calling himself the &#8220;best friend&#8221; of your SL girlfriend. Secretly, he is actually in love with her and steals her away from you in the end &#8230; hmm, guess that only fits for one single guy &#8230;</p>
<p>Anyways, despite all the discussion, I really like this post and I have to admit that I DO have female skins and shapes in my inv, but I use them for fun only (besides that, my name gives me away anyways <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: hawksrock</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>hawksrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>My intention is honestly as follows:

1) Tackle a topic that will be interesting to our readership (target audience = male)
2) Provide a strong position on the topic
3) Engage the readership into taking action and voicing their opinion via comments
4) Sit back, eat popcorn, scratch myself, and watch how it plays out

I am not a homophobe (by way of the classic argument that I have some great gay guy friends), but I have been conditioned to be very weirded out by the concept of somebody duping me into thinking they were the opposite gender, and then doing something sexual, even just a kiss in a virtual environment.

I am all for the discussion forum going in whatever way the readers are impacted by my write-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My intention is honestly as follows:</p>
<p>1) Tackle a topic that will be interesting to our readership (target audience = male)<br />
2) Provide a strong position on the topic<br />
3) Engage the readership into taking action and voicing their opinion via comments<br />
4) Sit back, eat popcorn, scratch myself, and watch how it plays out</p>
<p>I am not a homophobe (by way of the classic argument that I have some great gay guy friends), but I have been conditioned to be very weirded out by the concept of somebody duping me into thinking they were the opposite gender, and then doing something sexual, even just a kiss in a virtual environment.</p>
<p>I am all for the discussion forum going in whatever way the readers are impacted by my write-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-124</guid>
		<description>@Crono: Agreed. And I don&#039;t think anyone should be &quot;let off the hook.&quot; More important than establishing some kind of purity of rightness in any viewpoint or argument is that people think and talk about these issues. Second Life provides an incredibly good forum for both expressing identity (gender included) and discussion of possibility, &quot;reality,&quot; and oppression. Certainly a better understanding can come out of it all.

I&#039;m not sure it was Hawks&#039; intention to start an avalanche of discussion on the world of gender issues, but then, given the blog&#039;s title and focus on &quot;guys not girls&quot; stuff, it&#039;s unavoidable to an extent, and I, for one, welcome it. Thanks for your views (and Xax!), they&#039;ve raised the level of discourse considerably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crono: Agreed. And I don&#8217;t think anyone should be &#8220;let off the hook.&#8221; More important than establishing some kind of purity of rightness in any viewpoint or argument is that people think and talk about these issues. Second Life provides an incredibly good forum for both expressing identity (gender included) and discussion of possibility, &#8220;reality,&#8221; and oppression. Certainly a better understanding can come out of it all.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it was Hawks&#8217; intention to start an avalanche of discussion on the world of gender issues, but then, given the blog&#8217;s title and focus on &#8220;guys not girls&#8221; stuff, it&#8217;s unavoidable to an extent, and I, for one, welcome it. Thanks for your views (and Xax!), they&#8217;ve raised the level of discourse considerably.</p>
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		<title>By: CronoCloud Creeggan</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>CronoCloud Creeggan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-121</guid>
		<description>I should have also mentioned that this is also an issue among RL transfolk.  There&#039;s plenty of discussion of  when/if/how a stealth transwoman should tell her het identfiied boyfriend/fiancee/etc.
This may piss off guys, but there are transwomen who believe in NOT telling, because when they do tell early on, the relationship ends, often badly.  So they believe that to have any chance of having a &quot;normal&quot; relationship at all they shouldn&#039;t disclose.

But I can&#039;t let guys off the hook because, putting it bluntly, most guys are subconscious homophobes.  That&#039;s not saying they&#039;re all the kind of people who&#039;d beat up a gay couple for holding hands, but that their homophobia is rather more internal and actually somewhat derived from misogyny.  It goes something like this:

1.  guys are told they shouldn&#039;t be like women.  that being like a woman is bad, and one of the worst things they can be.  A la the gym teachers telling their boys: &quot;You play like girls/sissies.&quot;

2.  Gays, because they are &quot;takers&quot; are like women.  Notwithstanding the stereotype&#039;s of &quot;swishy&quot; gay men.

3. Therefore being gay is like being a woman, and bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have also mentioned that this is also an issue among RL transfolk.  There&#8217;s plenty of discussion of  when/if/how a stealth transwoman should tell her het identfiied boyfriend/fiancee/etc.<br />
This may piss off guys, but there are transwomen who believe in NOT telling, because when they do tell early on, the relationship ends, often badly.  So they believe that to have any chance of having a &#8220;normal&#8221; relationship at all they shouldn&#8217;t disclose.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t let guys off the hook because, putting it bluntly, most guys are subconscious homophobes.  That&#8217;s not saying they&#8217;re all the kind of people who&#8217;d beat up a gay couple for holding hands, but that their homophobia is rather more internal and actually somewhat derived from misogyny.  It goes something like this:</p>
<p>1.  guys are told they shouldn&#8217;t be like women.  that being like a woman is bad, and one of the worst things they can be.  A la the gym teachers telling their boys: &#8220;You play like girls/sissies.&#8221;</p>
<p>2.  Gays, because they are &#8220;takers&#8221; are like women.  Notwithstanding the stereotype&#8217;s of &#8220;swishy&#8221; gay men.</p>
<p>3. Therefore being gay is like being a woman, and bad.</p>
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		<title>By: myg</title>
		<link>http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>myg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 07:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://awnm.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/dangerous-curves-ahead/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>@Xax - good point, but I think everyone here blows past the fact that Hawks is actually talking about biological men who play women and then hook up with heterosexual men in SL and are dishonest with them. So it&#039;s about how we treat each other, see, not bout whether we play our RL anatomy in SL. 

I think we all should cross gender in SL, at least sometimes - it&#039;s a good thing to do. But we shouldn&#039;t fuck with each other, whether we&#039;re crossing gender or not.

Yeah I&#039;m sorry guys, I can&#039;t shut up. I&#039;m in a zone here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Xax &#8211; good point, but I think everyone here blows past the fact that Hawks is actually talking about biological men who play women and then hook up with heterosexual men in SL and are dishonest with them. So it&#8217;s about how we treat each other, see, not bout whether we play our RL anatomy in SL. </p>
<p>I think we all should cross gender in SL, at least sometimes &#8211; it&#8217;s a good thing to do. But we shouldn&#8217;t fuck with each other, whether we&#8217;re crossing gender or not.</p>
<p>Yeah I&#8217;m sorry guys, I can&#8217;t shut up. I&#8217;m in a zone here&#8230;</p>
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